There Is Church in the Wild

These are no small feats, especially considering that most artists we deem part of hip-hop’s elite have never even garnered that level of distinction.

Moore’s relevance in an industry where the lifespan of a music artist is often cut short is remarkable. It’s a wonder to witness how he continues to push forward when many artists with similar credentials would have simply thrown in the towel. Yet, Moore continues to build an entertainment empire through praise and worship.

However, you don’t become a disciple without testimony. The past few years have been filled with lessons—balancing the pressures of fame and faith within the Christian community, coupled with the responsibilities of being a Black husband and father in America. Like many of us during hardship, he has questioned his faith and purpose, seeking comfort in all the wrong places. But by grace, along with acknowledgment of his mental health, he has persevered. Once again, the warrior has returned, and he’s ready to tell us why, like his single, he’s “Still Here.”

BLEU: You have a lot on your plate at the moment, and you're still eating. How do you get yourself pumped and motivated to be on go time every morning, especially during press runs?

Lecrae: Man, I realize that if I don’t cultivate a habit of refreshing my mind and restoring my body, then I’m no good. So, typically, it’s like, let me listen to a podcast or a song or something that puts me in the right frame of mind before I start my day. And that’s what I did today—just to awaken the senses and be prepared to endure the day.

BLEU: And just what are you listening to these days? Who’s putting you in the right frame of mind?

Lecrae: Some younger artists … this guy named Jay Monty. I’ve been enjoying his music. I also like the sound of classic funk music. And then podcast-wise, I’ll save the stuff that is enjoyable or juicy for me, like a hip-hop podcast, for later in the day. Joe Budden or something similar. But in the morning, I may listen to something more spiritual, anything from Tony Evans to John Mark Comer.

BLEU: You have a little of everything in there, much like your life. You’re signed to your own label, Reach Records. You have your podcast, The Deep End with Lecrae, you’re co-owner of the B Side App, and then you have three beautiful children, your wife, and you have the nerve to drop a single, “Still Here.” How are you balancing it all?

Lecrae: [Laughs heartily] I don’t, that's the thing. I think balance is ideal, but I strive for tension, healthy tension. Balance is the idea that you have it all [and are] juggling it well. I seek the stress and the tension; like, I may be stretched a little too far over here, so let me come back here. I will always find ways to incorporate valuable things. [For example] I want to be a visible voice and presence in the city. I want to entertain, and I want to work with other organizations, and I want to be connected with my family. Then let's do something with the Atlanta Hawks or the Atlanta Dream, where I bring my family to the game. I may be doing some business to work out how to collaborate on merchandise or do a performance, but we all get to enjoy the game together. So, I try to incorporate all the worlds as best as possible, just to ensure I have a healthy tension.

BLEU: I hear you, but that time spent sounds a little Lecrae-centered …

Lecrae: Ha!

BLEU: Coming from someone who has a wife, how do you balance being a present husband? I’m sure she loves going to the games and your shows, but what do you guys find to do together that doesn't incorporate all your worlds?

Lecrae: Yeah. So, that's the thing I learned is, you gotta prioritize, right? So, when it comes to life, if I'm talking to a newly married man, I'll say the first thing you need to prioritize is yourself. That sounds selfish, but if you just stick with me, I'll make it make sense. I'll say if you're not emotionally, spiritually, or mentally healthy, you're no good for anybody else around you. So, prioritize your emotional, mental, and spiritual health so that you can be a good husband; then you can prioritize taking care of your wife right because she’s a part of you. So, making sure that y'all are on the same page.

Then, I was just blessed and fortunate that my wife happened to be an avid sports fan—so we love sports together. It's our thing. We went to the Olympics together; we go to our kids’ games together. We do sporting events in the city together. I just was extremely fortunate to have a wife like that. But then, if she was really into ballet, I would become a ballet fan for the sake of getting quality time with her.

BLEU: Now, back to the spiritual part of who you are as a man. I’ve recently given my life to Christ, and in learning more about God, it has made me want to change some of the content I was consuming, especially when it came to music, which is how I ended up finding your podcast, The Deep End with Lecrae. What made you get into an oversaturated space and be so vulnerable with your content?

Lecrae: I would agree the podcast space can be very over saturated; however, I realize that I'm a hybrid. [Due to] the different worlds that I live in, I did not feel like there was a voice that was speaking to me. I felt like I had to compartmentalize myself to receive information. I'm a big hip-hop fan, so I can get adult contemporary perspectives on hip-hop from Joe Budden or Charlamagne Tha God. I'm a thinker. I'm a thought leader. There may be some podcasts that stimulate my mind. I am a very faith-oriented person. It's essential to my being. There may be podcasts that talk about that. I wasn't finding that collective that could speak to all of those elements and speak to my faith. Me being a thinker who wants to process information and then being a product of hip-hop culture as an adult. So, I wanted to make something that spoke to all those versions of me. What does marriage look like, and how does my faith inform that? What does music look like? Does my faith inform that? What does business or finances look like? Let's have a conversation in the dialogue in terms of what real life looks like when you're navigating your faith. I just wanted to create something I didn't have.

BLEU: I’m really glad you brought that up. At some point, the whole world knew exactly who Lecrae was. It seemed as if you and Drake were riding the same trajectory but in two different universes. How competitive are you, and was there a window where you could have gone fully secular?

Lecrae: To the competitive aspect of it, I think when I was younger, I had a chip on my shoulder, and I had something to prove. I think in this season of my life, a lot of my secret sauce is not my competitive edge. It's my experience. So when I'm creating, experience becomes my weapon. I ask myself, how can I articulate my experience in music? I have nothing to prove at this point. Technically, yes, I always want to challenge myself to be as technically sharp as I can be as an artist. We've all heard of some of our favorite artists that just lose a step as they get older. I don't wanna be that person.

As far as becoming a mainstream or secular artist, you know, I never saw a delineation. I didn’t see, like, I'm gonna go the gospel route, or I'm gonna go the mainstream route. I was just creating music. There were no lanes in my mind as I was recreating. I just kind of landed somewhere and was like, oh, okay, well, whatever. And then I broke some of those rules, and they said, ‘Hey, you can't do that over here.’ And I was like, I never knew I was in this box. So, that was never really a thought for me. I never wished I could go secular. It was more so, I wanna talk about my faith, or maybe I'm gonna do a song with E-40 or Ty Dolla Sign. I'm just gonna do the music I wanna do, and it lands where it lands.

BLEU: What inspired the song “Still Here?”

Lecrae: I have a lot of content to draw from, from pretty much 2018 through 2021. Some of the darkest moments in my life are in that span of time. As far as writing, I can now write from the outside looking in. During that time period, I didn't think I had the energy to even express the pain that I was going through, and I would journal a little bit. And what I [realized I] was dealing with was, I mean, some would say, a mid-life crisis. Others would say a nervous breakdown; some would say a faith crisis. I think all of them fit into that category. You know, my wife and I were having some very tough times, and it was like, man, do I even wanna still be in this relationship? God, do I still even believe that you're real? I'm dealing with church hurt, relational issues, and I'm challenged to stay focused and still be present and be an executive and be a father. And I was like, I don't have it. I just don't have it. Thank God for therapy. Thank God for good friends. I had to get through some very tough times.

BLEU: So, does “Still Here” have a double meaning?

Lecrae: Yes, it absolutely does. On one end of the spectrum, it is very much, God, are you still here in the midst of all the trials and tribulations that I'm enduring? Then, on the other end of the spectrum, it's saying, in light of the trials and tribulations that I have endured, I am still here, still pushing forward. And then there's a bleed over of, why am I still here? Because God is.

When I'm writing music, I always wanna do what I call doublespeak, and that is, oftentimes, there's a meaning within the meaning. There's a surface level for one audience; they understand it. Then there's another perspective that other people may understand, you know; in politics, they would say it's “dog whistling.” You know what I mean? It’s kind of like, ‘Hey, what did he just say?’ Only the people who know know, but other people heard a completely different thing. But both of them are relevant and matter.

BLEU: Going back to that dark time/place in your life. At what moment did you hit rock bottom? What made you say, ‘Yo, I need to get help right now.’

Lecrae: I think there were a few moments. The way I would articulate it is like a glass of water with the napkin on top and someone putting a rubber band on that napkin. And over the course of my life, there have been little drops of water on top of that napkin. And I would ignore it, you know, ohh, man, I'm stressed out, some business situation—drop the water. Man, I'm getting persecuted and belittled—a drop of water. Man, I felt some microaggressions or racial tension—drop of water. Man, me and my wife are at odds, drop of water. And then I think I was masking it, or I was escaping this flimsy paper towel on top of my glass by drinking all the time. So alcohol became like a crutch. I don't feel like dealing with this right now, so let me just drink. And so, the drinking became overwhelming till one day, I woke up, and that wet paper towel had just busted. And I woke up, hung over, [telling myself] let me shake this off—but I couldn't shake it off. I was like, ‘What the heck is going on?’

I found out I was clinically depressed by the weight of everything. So many ruminating thoughts of, ‘Am I kinda dead? Have I done too much? What if this happens? What if I get divorced?’ I'm just constantly thinking of all these things. And I just broke, like, I'm at the worst. I can't fix myself at this juncture. I'm grateful now because if I wouldn't have been in that place, I would have just tried to keep pushing. But I couldn't fix my brain, and I knew I needed help.

BLEU: Props to you for sharing that. There are a lot of men who are going through the exact same thing but don’t know how to express it. At our age, we’ve been conditioned to believe that these kinds of emotions are weak. You’ve talked about your father's absence on your podcast. How did that play out in your healing?

Lecrae: The funny thing about it was I had all these coping mechanisms from my dad not being there until I went to therapy. So, as a kid, I didn't know I was sad or that I was hurt. I felt it, but I could not pinpoint my actions to that hurt. I wanted to be loved and accepted because I felt like he rejected me. And so, a lot of times, I found myself in the arms of a woman to show me how valuable I am, that I'm worth something. I became addicted to just that feeling of someone saying you're valuable. But we've all been in relationships where, after a while, that enchantment stage goes away, and then I'll jump into another one, and I became a serial monogamist. Chasing that feeling of enchantment of somebody saying you matter. I was just an objectifier. I'm not gonna wanna stay with you long term cause I just want you for your body and for you to tell me I'm the most amazing person in the world. That takes a toll on you, and then you just start living a lifestyle that is out of control because you don't know what it means to be a stable man. That's where a lot of the drugs and the drinking and the chaos came into play.

After meeting the Lord and just finding a sense of peace and wholeness, I had a sense of purpose. I also had a reason to live other than objectifying women and getting high and so on and so forth. I just had to grow in that process. I probably became hyper-vigilant in trying to be the father that I never had. To the degree where I may be smothering my kids, I may be overbearing because I'm so fearful of them feeling the feelings I felt. ‘Hey, where you going? Did you call? Did you do this? What's going on? What's up? Are we hanging out? Hey, we need to do dinner at the same time every night.’ I had to tell myself, ‘Yo, chill bro,’ they're not going to be you. Your lives are way different. So, the good part is I'm very intentional. I'm always trying to create moments of family time. We do regularly scheduled things. We watch movies together, and we have heavy conversations. I share my life with them. The tough part is I'm not perfect, so I'm gonna overcompensate for my struggles and my fears. I have to fight the fear that rises up in me that my kids will have the same issues. I had to not be overbearing.

BLEU: Yeah, our generation had to learn to forgive the previous generation to get ourselves right. I’d like to end on a hypothetical. Let's say there was a Lecrae’s State of the Union address, and you have the ability to be on everyone's TVs and phones all at once for one minute—what do you say specifically to Black men in that minute?

Lecrae: I would say it’s a misnomer that we're not trying, and we’re not present. That we are pushing back on that stigma, but in pushing back on that, we have to remind ourselves that we're fighting an uphill battle. We've got to recognize that we're part of the 1%. You talk about black Africans being taken from the continent, the diaspora, being tortured, beaten, and emasculated—and we're still here. We are still here. You gotta give yourself some credit for enduring that diasporic journey. We're doing therapy; we're doing counseling; we're pouring into our kids and trying to be present fathers and husbands. And we must continue doing this so that our ceiling is someone else's floor. We're not gonna get all the credit for the hard work or all the labor. But to thrive right now, be gracious with yourself because it is going to be a battle, but it's a battle worth fighting. So keep on pushing.